Archive for July, 2010

You know the sound whenever David Mark is hitting the bottom of someone’s kill file? Depending on the different sounds the newsreaders are playing, it could be a very interesting arrangement, if we could sample all these sounds from all over the world and replay them at high speed.

Yesterday, Scott Sauyet said:

I just like to point out inconsistencies and other intellectual dishonesties. You just happen to be a particularly easy source of both.

David Mark said:

An irritating pundit, basically. And the use of the term “intellectual dishonesties” in this context (or in Usenet in general) is beyond laughable. Do you read your stuff before you post? Try it in front of a mirror.
No, I’ve been consistent to a fault here for years. You are simple a very green participant with wide eyes and a big mouth.

Scott Sauyet replied:


Dear fans

Is it possible to create a *plonk* counter, which counts the number of *plonks*, David Mark has receipted?

[1]: discussion at comp.lang.javascript


David Mark Fan Blog Poster

Second draft.

Or back to the first draft?

David Mark Fan Blog Poster

Posted: July 30, 2010 in David Mark
Tags: ,

David Mark Fan Blog Poster

Despite David Mark isn’t involved in this fan blog at all, three days after the start of this blog, David Mark stated about his own website:

Record traffic on the site this week. There’s something in the air. 🙂

And today, David Mark said:

Another record day for the site. Very validating. 🙂

This is obviously an initial reaction from starting this fan blog, and clearly we are going to have to come back to this success in the future.

Dear fans

Thank you for your support. I would like to give something back to you and created a first draft of a David Mark Fan Blog poster.

In the meantime I created a second draft.

[1]: David Mark’s twitter messages

It’s a tough time for business, so David Mark posted the following advertising for his commercial services to a public newsgroup:

I want to remind everyone that I run a very reasonably priced support service for browser scripting professionals.  It’s a fixed monthly fee […]

Sorry for the blatant advertisement, but having been recently exhorted to share my knowledge and experience in book form, I thought I should remind readers that books are a relatively limited (and static) medium. […]

His new “business idea” seems to be not successful. David Mark said:

Despite virtually zero advertising so far, I’m still disappointed in the number of sign-ups. Seeing thousands of people getting wrong answers on StackOverflow or posing questions at the bottom of blog posts in hopes of a lightning strike tells me that there is a huge market for this service (a sort of insurance policy against time-wasting) […]

Since he named his post “This newsgroup is not a help desk”, rf replied:

And it’s also not a place to advertise ones wares.

Garrett Smith said:

Apparently “Bring me the head of John Resig” with the accompanying “My Library” license (“ready for framing”) was abandoned.

David Mark replied:


A. You are not minding your own business.
B. You haven’t read the recent discussion about my book.

Do catch up and stop being such a gossip.

Mark Kruse said:

David Mark wrote:

Sorry for the blatant advertisement

You should be. It’s pretty pathetic. Even for you.

A fixed-cost help desk that answers questions whose answers can be surely found for free… as long as you ask smart questions… and only up to three a day… but of course not every day. Are you serious?!

It’s hard to take seriously your criticisms of libraries (which are generalized enough to solve most peoples’ problems so they can avoid asking complex browser scripting questions to begin with) when you blatantly advertise a for-profit alternative.

You’d be better-off spamming the support forums of those libraries whose business you have been trying to take for years. But then, that might make you look even more pathetic.

David Mark replied:

LOL.  You are definitely not on the list.  How many times have I bailed you out?

Did you read my post at all?  And are you really so naive to think that anyone can do what I do?  How many people with my experience can you count on to answer questions in this group?  […]

As pathetic as a known jQuery apologist (and virtual basket-case on his worst days) wasting time in a thread that is none of his concern? I mean, I know you are my biggest fan and all, but why don’t you go play around in the jQuery forums.  That’s your place.

You’d do well to admit defeat on this whole browser scripting thing and cough up the necessary premiums (and you know it).

Alan Gutierrez replied:

David Mark wrote:

As pathetic as a known jQuery apologist (and virtual basket-case on his worst days) wasting time in a thread that is none of his concern?

I’m sorry. I didn’t know that you were the man who owned USENET. Is this thread any of my concern? May I post in it.

Steve Young commented:

Similar to the cycle of life this is the cycle of DM.

As I wrote here
It’s the usual garbage:
“All JavaScript libraries are rubbish, I‘ll write a really good one”
“All JavaScript books are rubbish. I‘ll write a really good one”
“Dojo is the best JavaScript library. I‘ll make it really good”
Nothing came of any of this so now we’re back at:
“All JavaScript libraries are rubbish, I‘ll write a really good one”
It’ll be the book next.

Except instead of the book we get this ‘cos its better.

Despite virtually zero advertising so far, I’m still disappointed in the number of sign-ups.

This statement is priceless. You are disappointed that people are not signing up despite the fact that you are not advertising?

And, of course, there’s the almost daily occurrence of newcomers to this group getting frustrated by the “staffers” discussions of their present problems.

This has been less of a problem over the last few weeks but unfortunately you’re back.

*Conditions apply regarding the scope and depth of questions that may be asked

Of course!

David Mark replied:

Nobody should be interested in your writings at this point.  Your reputation was shot long ago.

All *existing* (major GP) libraries are rubbish…  Get it?  And I obviously wrote a much better one, as evidenced by the patterns showing up in the rest of them (years later).

“All JavaScript books are rubbish. I’ll write a really good one”

They are and I am.

“Dojo is the best JavaScript library. I’ll make it really good”

I never said anything like that.  I said it would be the best when I got done with it.  I rewrote virtually all of it if you recall.  Not my fault that their egos couldn’t take the hit.

[…] Don’t be stupid.  When I‘m away, far less gets done here.

[…] Don’t bother asking things like “Why is Steve Young such a nitwit?”  It’s too open-ended.

Steve Young said:

David Mark wrote:

I cannot be expected to solve (or even attempt to solve) every problem that floats in here.

Personally, I would be happy to pay you not to answer my posts.

I stopped posting to c.l.j because you invariably snipped my posts and turned the thread into either rant against jQuery (which, by the way, I have never used just as I have never used any other framework or library) or into an advertisement for your latest fad/project. I could give you many examples such as here where I begged you not to get involved and let others answer but to no avail. So eventually I stopped posting, as I suspect have so many others.

For your information I am not a EMCAScript developer, I am a Microwave Radio Engineer and several years ago I decided I wanted to learn EMCAScript in order to provide microwave link planning tools, for free, on the Web. The Line of Sight tool is here and the Link Planning tool is here.

But I soon learned that you have a real anger directed at newcomers or anyone who asks a question that you consider to be simple and rather than let someone else answer you feel duty bound to insult the questioner and his question. I’m afraid this is what has made EMCAScript newcomers stay away in droves and without fresh blood c.l.j. has become stale. In my opinion it’s mainly down to you and this is why I sometimes cannot stop myself from knocking you off the pedestal you have put yourself on.

Cheers, Steve.

Kenneth Tilton replied:

Why didn’t you use a killfile entry? That’s what I do since I know that I lack the will power to ignore the ding dongs. Works well.

I agree, however, that this group is a wasteland compared to other groups where one can usually get help in spite of the ever-present ding dongs in any group, and that it may well be because of the pack of hyenas led by Mr. Mark.

Alan Gutierrez wrote:

I’m new here and I’m already put off by the no libraries auto post. I can see where it comes from.

David Mark replied to Steve Young:

Steve Young wrote:

For your information I am not a EMCAScript developer

That much is clear sir.
I think you’ve been standing too close to your radios.
You are like a feather trying to topple a mountain.

David Mark don’t understand what could be wrong with him and is counting on his support skills. But then, he said:

I have helped lots of people, though many of them resisted my efforts furiously, right up until the point of the inevitable epiphany. […] Some people learn and do better; some people chant dubious rhetoric to ease the pain of endless futility.

Dr J R Stockton wrote:

Others like being helpful, and see no need to charge for that.  Remember that you are fundamentally unimportant in the overall scheme of things.

David Mark replied:

Not in this group. That should be evident by now. If not, you haven’t been paying attention.

Dear fans

Is this the right “business idea” for David Mark or what else could be a good idea?
Send in your suggestions.

[1]: discussion at comp.lang.javascript

David Mark is working on a book about JavaScript. He said:

I have been working on a book on-again and off-again for years. The trouble is that there is not a lot of motivation as I can make a lot more money writing code than writing about code.

I suppose if some savvy publisher advanced me, oh, 50K or so, I’d get right on it. As it is, the one I talked to was in a completely different neighborhood (one that I prefer to avoid, at least after dark).

William Wallace wrote:
It seems that there are no good books.

You are learning fast.  But the publishers see “good books” as books that will sell the most copies. The representatives I dealt with were of the opinion that “everyone” is really excited about “these libraries” (e.g. jQuery). They sent me an outline of one to look at (and review) and I asked them if it was going to be a children’s book and indicated that the only sort of jQuery book I would consider writing would be of the contrarian view. I think that and my high asking price turned them off, but I do still hear from them from time to time. Maybe some day they will realize that somebody has to take a chance and publish something fresh. I mean, in five or ten years, who is going to care about jQuery puff pieces?

What we can learn from David Mark’s profile at Linked In:

Until January 2010, David Mark was employed at SitePen, Inc. for a short time (just 5 months). After that he was self-employed with Since June 2010 he is registered as Consultant at Synergy Consulting Group, Inc., a recruting agency.

So if David Mark would get a chance to write a book, this would be the perfect time. And indeed, David Mark wrote:

I happened to hear from a representative at my prospective publisher today. I’m trying to work out a deal that will benefit everyone. Can’t do it for the Karma alone though.

But writing a book is a lot of work. Not everyone is able to finish a book project. I’m slightly concerned about David Mark’s statement:

I’ve got enough raw material for a whole series of books,
but not enough time to organize it.

Dear fans

How could we help David Mark?
Do you know some of his own quotations, he could use for his book?
Send in your citation and a link to the source.

[1]: comment at comp.lang.javascript

David Mark argues for some minor changes in the code base of some JavaScript libraries. It seems, that David is absolutely convinced about his thoughts and everyone else is simply incompetent in his eyes.

David Mark:

The bottom line for those choosing a framework to alleviate the rigors of cross-browser scripting is that the authors of this thing do not understand the language they are using and apparently have a hard time grasping very basic logic. The idea that such authors would be capable of writing a “full-fledged” application framework in anything but an incompetent manner is beyond ludicrous and abdicating responsibility to such authors can only be considered career suicide.

Other developers don’t care about these minor changes and especially what David Mark says. It’s clear for everyone that it has something to do with the rude insults comments, David Mark let us known. On the other side David Mark is asking for love:

David Mark:

Though it would be nice to be liked.

“digitalspaghetti” said:

I had never even heard of David Mark before today.

I’m a long time jQuery user myself and accept that, like any other software, it has bugs – but I don’t troll the community like he does.

I was googling to look at JS GUI libraries and this article came up for Dojo, and after reading his bilge on here I will certainly NOT be using or even considering his library even if it is better or has less bugs, purely because of his attitude (and I’m @tanepiper on twitter David and I’ve said the same thing to you there).

David Mark:


I had never even heard of David Mark before today.


I’m a long time jQuery user myself…

…and first time caller?

Yes, jQuery has bugs galore. But what community am I supposed to be “trolling”? You sure won’t find me in any jQuery-related forums.

“ajaxery” supplemented:

If I can be certain about anything, it’s that I’ll never use “My Library” or anything else that David Mark develops. Sorry dude, I don’t know you and I don’t care how good you are, in actuality or in your own mind. I won’t support someone with your attitude coming here just to take a crap on someone else’s work. If you don’t like it, ignore it. Very simple.

“Sandr” said:

Unfortunately there are tons of discussions like this with bad comments and hidden insults from your side, David. If you would be able to discuss technical points without your “rants”, nobody would say a word. But look at your discussion style in reality, instead. One could say, the name “David Mark” stands for insults and rants.

That disqualifies you.

Ouch, reputation is important. Why else should David Mark spend all his time dogged by controversy?

David Mark:

[Everybody loves me…] The typical exceptions are groups of open source developers with ego and/or confidence issues. They don’t seem to respond to my brand of motivation (much to their detriment as evidenced here).

Indeed, David Mark is different. He is not the same as everyone else.

“SlexAxton” said:

I heard that one time, David Mark created a widget so backwards compatible that you could use it before the internet existed. AND I heard he did it without any browser sniffs, or internet sniffs

Dear fans

What do you think can we do for David?
Send in your suggestions.

[1]: comment at

Some days later nobody has recognized nor said something about David Mark’s presence at ajaxian. But then, the announcement about Dojo 1.5 was posted at Ajaxian: “Dojo 1.5 is Out and it’s Feature Packed!“. It seems one function of Dojo doesn’t work: dojo.isArray(). David Mark starts a comment about Dojo:

That’s them all over. And the sad thing is that they’ve been told repeatedly that the code is gibberish, but they want to be “shown where it fails”. Even worse, that function is called by most of their “modules”.

Lacking understanding leaves only observation and guesswork.

“sixtyseconds” replied:

Funny how you think this is a lame blog full of lame people, but you’re always here to tell everyone how much they suck…

“SlexAxton” said:

I think the check is more of a future-proof way of detecting for arrays if they ever get implemented in that way. It’s probably a worthwhile extra few characters for future compatibility. David Mark would be proud.

“SteveFDotNet” points David to his own work:

David Mark, I am surprised you have time to come here and comment. You should instead invest your time beefing up the UI library for your floundering js lib. I mean your current offering consists of this ’stunning’ tabbed pane Says it all really.

David Mark commented:


Always here? How did you arrive at that? It would be more accurate to say that I am never here, unless directed to a point of interest by somebody who does read this rag regularly.

@SteveFDotNet (do any of these people have real names?)

I’ll tell you what that quote says: “you are an imbecile”. You[…]

And how ignorant would you have to be to describe My Library as “floundering. […]


[…] If you aren’t aware, I rewrote that function (and the rest of their crap) a year back. They decided to go with their execrable status quo and this is the result. What a waste (in more ways than one). Dojo is still teeming with UA sniffs (and other voodoo) in 2010. It’s a walking corpse. Use it and you will be downloading a whole new mess to deal with IE9 (assuming they don’t just give up in the interim). You can put that in the bank.

What a rant. David Mark is certainly one of the quitest fellows in the JavaScript community.

“friendlyjs” replied:

I’m still not sure David Mark is a real person.

Grats Dojo team, that’s a lovely theme & would certainly appease my boss who once criticised one of my apps for not feeling ‘intuitive like Windows’. barf. I really must get into Dojo.
I wonders if these rumoured themeroller beef-ups will allow this kind of styling in jQuery UI…

“Sandr” said:

Congratulations to the Dojo developers!

You shouldn’t care about David Mark. David Mark has tried to “change” the codebase of the Dojo Toolkit without success and is now angry about this fact. The problem was, that he started with coding “his” ideas about the “right JavaScript” without beeing able to discuss his changes with the rest of the developer community. Instead, he has ignored some important features in his “solutions” and started to “rant” about some facts, in his usual “childish irritating” discussion style. He was bigheaded and started to offend other devs. The problem with David Mark is, that he can’t stop his rants and rants and rants. David Mark was banned from the Dojo developer mailing list, after he started to insult more and more developers.

Reader “sos”:

Haha, David Mark strikes again. They guy is a walking disaster area. Check out the main description of his JS lib “My Library”:

“If you’ve had the sneaking suspicion that most browser scripting projects are not ready for prime time, let us be the first to confirm your suspicions. Virtually all of them are sizzle without solid substance”

So, he starts off with criticizing all other JavaScript toolkits every created, including Dojo, YUI, JQuery, Prototype etc. rather than explaining what differentiates his library.

He has a whole section titled “Others Inherently Limited and Dated”.

Take a look at all other toolkit home pages – not one of them trashes the competition. Because they don’t have to rely on that. They have actual strengths and differentiators.

Mr. Mark, on the other hand seemingly feels that he has to resort to attacking the whole world (I’m not crazy, everyone else is….)

Stay classy David.

David Mark’s answer:

You missed the boat. As clearly stated the first few paragraphs on the home page refer to an upcoming site (and were only recently added). My Library has been out for years and for most of that time I have exhorted people not to use it as I don’t think GP libraries (no matter how modular and compatible) are appropriate for a single-threaded language that must be downloaded to browsers (some of which have very limited resources). It wasn’t written to “compete” with dubious libraries and frameworks, but to demonstrate how such things can be written in competent fashion (i.e. without sniffing browsers).

[… Dojo] is a testament to the relative inexperience (and massive egos) of its developers that they failed to use any of it in a timely fashion […]

Professional developers don’t abdicate responsibility to programmers who don’t understand their own code and refuse to take steps to gain such understanding.

“Sandr” replied:

Professional developers don’t rant and rant and rant…

Fact is, nobody is willing to work with you or hear your arguments, dear David. Because of your personality – unfortunately…

Grow up, David.

“Yansky” said bluntly:

@DavidMark: why are you such an arsehole?

Dear fans

I know, this is not the first discussion, David Mark has started.
Send in your links to other discussions.