Posts Tagged ‘Dojo’

Providing expertise is one thing, taking advice is another. David Mark don’t like to be corrected.

Garrett Smith said:

What was written was corrected as it was misleading.

David Mark replied:

In your own fantasy world I presume. In reality, your response demonstrated a stunning lack of comprehension.

Garrett Smith:

I see you’ve snipped what was written and replied flippantly. It reflects typical behavior of David Mark.

Alan Gutierrez to David Mark:

I’m afraid your acting the pedant and not making a sincere attempt at dialog. In my last message, I attempted to move away from argument, and toward inquiry, but your insistence on your own authority has brought us back to argument. Is it not equality clear that you have much to learn? Much to learn not only from me but from other members of the software communities in which you participate?

David Mark replied:

No. And I can’t help but ask, what communities would those be? If you are referring to projects like jQuery and Dojo, then much to learn you have. 🙂


I’d agree that you are kind of a creep. Be fair, a repetitive, self-righteous blow-hard. That won’t serve you well in this group. 😉

Alan Gutierrez replied:

Adding a smiley doesn’t change the fact that you have just insulted me. You have called me a creep. That is offensive and I take offense.

[…] Again, it is a causal grace that dominates the Internet, that we approach each other as equals. Asking a question of a newsgroup does not put a person in a position of being admonished. I am not inclined to accept admonishments from strangers.
[…] If the turnover of this newsgroup is that bad, you should really look at what’s gone off the tracks with the community. You’d hope that people would come and stay. If they are coming and probably, like me, standing their ground when they are condescended to, they are going to leave. It is a shame if that is the case.

Truly, if it is the same story that someone engages with you until you insult them, then don’t you feel that this pattern begs some self-observation?

Garrett Smith wrote:

(please don’t feed the trolls).

Alan Gutierrez ended the discussion:

I’m quite certain that we’re not going to resolve anything at this point. I will note that you owe me an apology for calling me a creep and a blow-hard. I never resorted to calling you names. I don’t know you well enough to accept insults even accompanied by emoticons, so you will have to address that if should we ever find that we have to work together. Otherwise, to ingratiate myself to other readers of this newsgroup, I will allow you to have the last word, allowing anything more that you have to say, admonishments, homework assignments, or insults to go un-addressed.

David Mark replied:

In other words, you wasted a ton of time (including some of mine) for no reason, other than perhaps laziness. Apology accepted. 🙂

Kenneth Tilton said to David Mark:

Sounds like you are a terrible communicator if all that is necessary. A good communicator meets their audience half-way.

This kind of advice is what David Mark wouldn’t listen to.

Kenneth Tilton said:

Stick to HTML, it’s a trivially small pond in which to tread water, you have half a prayer.

David Mark replied:

Why do you continually seek to give me advice?  That’s pretty laughable considering […]

Kenneth Tilton replied:



Dear fans

Share your advice for successful communication.

[1]: discussion at comp.lang.javascript
[2]: discussion at comp.lang.javascript


Some days later nobody has recognized nor said something about David Mark’s presence at ajaxian. But then, the announcement about Dojo 1.5 was posted at Ajaxian: “Dojo 1.5 is Out and it’s Feature Packed!“. It seems one function of Dojo doesn’t work: dojo.isArray(). David Mark starts a comment about Dojo:

That’s them all over. And the sad thing is that they’ve been told repeatedly that the code is gibberish, but they want to be “shown where it fails”. Even worse, that function is called by most of their “modules”.

Lacking understanding leaves only observation and guesswork.

“sixtyseconds” replied:

Funny how you think this is a lame blog full of lame people, but you’re always here to tell everyone how much they suck…

“SlexAxton” said:

I think the check is more of a future-proof way of detecting for arrays if they ever get implemented in that way. It’s probably a worthwhile extra few characters for future compatibility. David Mark would be proud.

“SteveFDotNet” points David to his own work:

David Mark, I am surprised you have time to come here and comment. You should instead invest your time beefing up the UI library for your floundering js lib. I mean your current offering consists of this ’stunning’ tabbed pane Says it all really.

David Mark commented:


Always here? How did you arrive at that? It would be more accurate to say that I am never here, unless directed to a point of interest by somebody who does read this rag regularly.

@SteveFDotNet (do any of these people have real names?)

I’ll tell you what that quote says: “you are an imbecile”. You[…]

And how ignorant would you have to be to describe My Library as “floundering. […]


[…] If you aren’t aware, I rewrote that function (and the rest of their crap) a year back. They decided to go with their execrable status quo and this is the result. What a waste (in more ways than one). Dojo is still teeming with UA sniffs (and other voodoo) in 2010. It’s a walking corpse. Use it and you will be downloading a whole new mess to deal with IE9 (assuming they don’t just give up in the interim). You can put that in the bank.

What a rant. David Mark is certainly one of the quitest fellows in the JavaScript community.

“friendlyjs” replied:

I’m still not sure David Mark is a real person.

Grats Dojo team, that’s a lovely theme & would certainly appease my boss who once criticised one of my apps for not feeling ‘intuitive like Windows’. barf. I really must get into Dojo.
I wonders if these rumoured themeroller beef-ups will allow this kind of styling in jQuery UI…

“Sandr” said:

Congratulations to the Dojo developers!

You shouldn’t care about David Mark. David Mark has tried to “change” the codebase of the Dojo Toolkit without success and is now angry about this fact. The problem was, that he started with coding “his” ideas about the “right JavaScript” without beeing able to discuss his changes with the rest of the developer community. Instead, he has ignored some important features in his “solutions” and started to “rant” about some facts, in his usual “childish irritating” discussion style. He was bigheaded and started to offend other devs. The problem with David Mark is, that he can’t stop his rants and rants and rants. David Mark was banned from the Dojo developer mailing list, after he started to insult more and more developers.

Reader “sos”:

Haha, David Mark strikes again. They guy is a walking disaster area. Check out the main description of his JS lib “My Library”:

“If you’ve had the sneaking suspicion that most browser scripting projects are not ready for prime time, let us be the first to confirm your suspicions. Virtually all of them are sizzle without solid substance”

So, he starts off with criticizing all other JavaScript toolkits every created, including Dojo, YUI, JQuery, Prototype etc. rather than explaining what differentiates his library.

He has a whole section titled “Others Inherently Limited and Dated”.

Take a look at all other toolkit home pages – not one of them trashes the competition. Because they don’t have to rely on that. They have actual strengths and differentiators.

Mr. Mark, on the other hand seemingly feels that he has to resort to attacking the whole world (I’m not crazy, everyone else is….)

Stay classy David.

David Mark’s answer:

You missed the boat. As clearly stated the first few paragraphs on the home page refer to an upcoming site (and were only recently added). My Library has been out for years and for most of that time I have exhorted people not to use it as I don’t think GP libraries (no matter how modular and compatible) are appropriate for a single-threaded language that must be downloaded to browsers (some of which have very limited resources). It wasn’t written to “compete” with dubious libraries and frameworks, but to demonstrate how such things can be written in competent fashion (i.e. without sniffing browsers).

[… Dojo] is a testament to the relative inexperience (and massive egos) of its developers that they failed to use any of it in a timely fashion […]

Professional developers don’t abdicate responsibility to programmers who don’t understand their own code and refuse to take steps to gain such understanding.

“Sandr” replied:

Professional developers don’t rant and rant and rant…

Fact is, nobody is willing to work with you or hear your arguments, dear David. Because of your personality – unfortunately…

Grow up, David.

“Yansky” said bluntly:

@DavidMark: why are you such an arsehole?

Dear fans

I know, this is not the first discussion, David Mark has started.
Send in your links to other discussions.