Posts Tagged ‘opposition’


Providing expertise is one thing, taking advice is another. David Mark don’t like to be corrected.

Garrett Smith said:

What was written was corrected as it was misleading.
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David Mark replied:

In your own fantasy world I presume. In reality, your response demonstrated a stunning lack of comprehension.
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Garrett Smith:

I see you’ve snipped what was written and replied flippantly. It reflects typical behavior of David Mark.
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Alan Gutierrez to David Mark:

I’m afraid your acting the pedant and not making a sincere attempt at dialog. In my last message, I attempted to move away from argument, and toward inquiry, but your insistence on your own authority has brought us back to argument. Is it not equality clear that you have much to learn? Much to learn not only from me but from other members of the software communities in which you participate?
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David Mark replied:

No. And I can’t help but ask, what communities would those be? If you are referring to projects like jQuery and Dojo, then much to learn you have. 🙂

[…]

I’d agree that you are kind of a creep. Be fair, a repetitive, self-righteous blow-hard. That won’t serve you well in this group. 😉
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Alan Gutierrez replied:

Adding a smiley doesn’t change the fact that you have just insulted me. You have called me a creep. That is offensive and I take offense.

[…] Again, it is a causal grace that dominates the Internet, that we approach each other as equals. Asking a question of a newsgroup does not put a person in a position of being admonished. I am not inclined to accept admonishments from strangers.
[…] If the turnover of this newsgroup is that bad, you should really look at what’s gone off the tracks with the community. You’d hope that people would come and stay. If they are coming and probably, like me, standing their ground when they are condescended to, they are going to leave. It is a shame if that is the case.

Truly, if it is the same story that someone engages with you until you insult them, then don’t you feel that this pattern begs some self-observation?
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Garrett Smith wrote:

(please don’t feed the trolls).
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Alan Gutierrez ended the discussion:

I’m quite certain that we’re not going to resolve anything at this point. I will note that you owe me an apology for calling me a creep and a blow-hard. I never resorted to calling you names. I don’t know you well enough to accept insults even accompanied by emoticons, so you will have to address that if should we ever find that we have to work together. Otherwise, to ingratiate myself to other readers of this newsgroup, I will allow you to have the last word, allowing anything more that you have to say, admonishments, homework assignments, or insults to go un-addressed.
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David Mark replied:

In other words, you wasted a ton of time (including some of mine) for no reason, other than perhaps laziness. Apology accepted. 🙂
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Kenneth Tilton said to David Mark:

Sounds like you are a terrible communicator if all that is necessary. A good communicator meets their audience half-way.
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This kind of advice is what David Mark wouldn’t listen to.

Kenneth Tilton said:

Stick to HTML, it’s a trivially small pond in which to tread water, you have half a prayer.
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David Mark replied:

Why do you continually seek to give me advice?  That’s pretty laughable considering […]
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Kenneth Tilton replied:

Goodnight,

Kenny.
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Dear fans

Share your advice for successful communication.

[1]: discussion at comp.lang.javascript
[2]: discussion at comp.lang.javascript


It’s a tough time for business, so David Mark posted the following advertising for his commercial services to a public newsgroup:

I want to remind everyone that I run a very reasonably priced support service for browser scripting professionals.  It’s a fixed monthly fee […]

Sorry for the blatant advertisement, but having been recently exhorted to share my knowledge and experience in book form, I thought I should remind readers that books are a relatively limited (and static) medium. […]
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His new “business idea” seems to be not successful. David Mark said:

Despite virtually zero advertising so far, I’m still disappointed in the number of sign-ups. Seeing thousands of people getting wrong answers on StackOverflow or posing questions at the bottom of blog posts in hopes of a lightning strike tells me that there is a huge market for this service (a sort of insurance policy against time-wasting) […]
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Since he named his post “This newsgroup is not a help desk”, rf replied:

And it’s also not a place to advertise ones wares.
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Garrett Smith said:

Apparently “Bring me the head of John Resig” with the accompanying “My Library” license (“ready for framing”) was abandoned.
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David Mark replied:

Apparently:-

A. You are not minding your own business.
B. You haven’t read the recent discussion about my book.

Do catch up and stop being such a gossip.
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Mark Kruse said:

David Mark wrote:

Sorry for the blatant advertisement

You should be. It’s pretty pathetic. Even for you.

A fixed-cost help desk that answers questions whose answers can be surely found for free… as long as you ask smart questions… and only up to three a day… but of course not every day. Are you serious?!

It’s hard to take seriously your criticisms of libraries (which are generalized enough to solve most peoples’ problems so they can avoid asking complex browser scripting questions to begin with) when you blatantly advertise a for-profit alternative.

You’d be better-off spamming the support forums of those libraries whose business you have been trying to take for years. But then, that might make you look even more pathetic.
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David Mark replied:

LOL.  You are definitely not on the list.  How many times have I bailed you out?

Did you read my post at all?  And are you really so naive to think that anyone can do what I do?  How many people with my experience can you count on to answer questions in this group?  […]

As pathetic as a known jQuery apologist (and virtual basket-case on his worst days) wasting time in a thread that is none of his concern? I mean, I know you are my biggest fan and all, but why don’t you go play around in the jQuery forums.  That’s your place.

You’d do well to admit defeat on this whole browser scripting thing and cough up the necessary premiums (and you know it).
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Alan Gutierrez replied:

David Mark wrote:

As pathetic as a known jQuery apologist (and virtual basket-case on his worst days) wasting time in a thread that is none of his concern?

I’m sorry. I didn’t know that you were the man who owned USENET. Is this thread any of my concern? May I post in it.
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Steve Young commented:

Similar to the cycle of life this is the cycle of DM.

As I wrote here
It’s the usual garbage:
“All JavaScript libraries are rubbish, I‘ll write a really good one”
“All JavaScript books are rubbish. I‘ll write a really good one”
“Dojo is the best JavaScript library. I‘ll make it really good”
Nothing came of any of this so now we’re back at:
“All JavaScript libraries are rubbish, I‘ll write a really good one”
It’ll be the book next.

Except instead of the book we get this ‘cos its better.

Despite virtually zero advertising so far, I’m still disappointed in the number of sign-ups.

This statement is priceless. You are disappointed that people are not signing up despite the fact that you are not advertising?

And, of course, there’s the almost daily occurrence of newcomers to this group getting frustrated by the “staffers” discussions of their present problems.

This has been less of a problem over the last few weeks but unfortunately you’re back.

*Conditions apply regarding the scope and depth of questions that may be asked

Of course!
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David Mark replied:

Nobody should be interested in your writings at this point.  Your reputation was shot long ago.

All *existing* (major GP) libraries are rubbish…  Get it?  And I obviously wrote a much better one, as evidenced by the patterns showing up in the rest of them (years later).

“All JavaScript books are rubbish. I’ll write a really good one”

They are and I am.

“Dojo is the best JavaScript library. I’ll make it really good”

I never said anything like that.  I said it would be the best when I got done with it.  I rewrote virtually all of it if you recall.  Not my fault that their egos couldn’t take the hit.

[…] Don’t be stupid.  When I‘m away, far less gets done here.

[…] Don’t bother asking things like “Why is Steve Young such a nitwit?”  It’s too open-ended.
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Steve Young said:

David Mark wrote:

I cannot be expected to solve (or even attempt to solve) every problem that floats in here.

Personally, I would be happy to pay you not to answer my posts.

I stopped posting to c.l.j because you invariably snipped my posts and turned the thread into either rant against jQuery (which, by the way, I have never used just as I have never used any other framework or library) or into an advertisement for your latest fad/project. I could give you many examples such as here where I begged you not to get involved and let others answer but to no avail. So eventually I stopped posting, as I suspect have so many others.

For your information I am not a EMCAScript developer, I am a Microwave Radio Engineer and several years ago I decided I wanted to learn EMCAScript in order to provide microwave link planning tools, for free, on the Web. The Line of Sight tool is here and the Link Planning tool is here.

But I soon learned that you have a real anger directed at newcomers or anyone who asks a question that you consider to be simple and rather than let someone else answer you feel duty bound to insult the questioner and his question. I’m afraid this is what has made EMCAScript newcomers stay away in droves and without fresh blood c.l.j. has become stale. In my opinion it’s mainly down to you and this is why I sometimes cannot stop myself from knocking you off the pedestal you have put yourself on.

Cheers, Steve.
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Kenneth Tilton replied:

Why didn’t you use a killfile entry? That’s what I do since I know that I lack the will power to ignore the ding dongs. Works well.

I agree, however, that this group is a wasteland compared to other groups where one can usually get help in spite of the ever-present ding dongs in any group, and that it may well be because of the pack of hyenas led by Mr. Mark.
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Alan Gutierrez wrote:

I’m new here and I’m already put off by the no libraries auto post. I can see where it comes from.
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David Mark replied to Steve Young:

Steve Young wrote:

For your information I am not a EMCAScript developer

That much is clear sir.
I think you’ve been standing too close to your radios.
You are like a feather trying to topple a mountain.
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David Mark don’t understand what could be wrong with him and is counting on his support skills. But then, he said:

I have helped lots of people, though many of them resisted my efforts furiously, right up until the point of the inevitable epiphany. […] Some people learn and do better; some people chant dubious rhetoric to ease the pain of endless futility.
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Dr J R Stockton wrote:

Others like being helpful, and see no need to charge for that.  Remember that you are fundamentally unimportant in the overall scheme of things.
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David Mark replied:

Not in this group. That should be evident by now. If not, you haven’t been paying attention.
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Dear fans

Is this the right “business idea” for David Mark or what else could be a good idea?
Send in your suggestions.

[1]: discussion at comp.lang.javascript